Tag Archives: engagement

Can You Handle the Truth about Event Marketing and Engagement?


Straight up, here’s the truth – using events as part of your marketing activity is the real engagement that people need and want.

In this post, after initially discussing event marketing, we are going to look at ways to evaluate third party event sponsorship. Thereafter we will provide our usual section on marketing tips and timesavers. This time, the tips are focused on event planners.

We totally subscribe to the fact that we have all become more connected than ever and that the volume of communication has risen.  We would also agree that, to most smartphone owners, connecting online has become as normal as talking to a neighbour across the fence.

What we’d like to suggest, however, is that the value of that communication has decreased. This is mainly because brands appear to be focussing on the channels / tools more than the audience. And anyway, in reality, an online relationship isn’t always reciprocal.

If you look at it from a business point of view – we have staff working in digital marketing, we have community managers, content marketing, online publications and many more methods of communicating with prospects. The trouble is, as we see it, brands are in danger of losing sight of what they are trying to do – which is to make a person feel important.

After all, it is these people that are the lifeblood of our businesses. With our constant analysis, projections, ROI and margins sometimes the human touch gets lost in it all.

Get back to the future by using event marketing to talk to people

Look at this another way – how do we engage with our friends? Well, I for one prefer to talk to them face-to-face. We usually enjoy similar interests but still appreciate each other, if not. Basically, we have trust and we help each other out.

Now we know that a brand is not going to have such a close relationship. Surely, though, it should, at least, try to create an authentic and relevant interaction about whatever it is the customer is using / buying. An excellent place for such interaction is at an event. What people don’t want is for irrelevant brands to interrupt or waste their valuable time.

Since the dawn of time, marketers have known that it is emotions that drive action so I guess we need to go back to the future here. Being real and talking to people through event marketing allow brands to have a better chance of moving people from being watchers and listeners to doers.

At an event, people get to meet the real you, your people and the brand’s personality. We don’t believe that relationships can be based on online impressions, likes, click-thru’s and web traffic. True relationships are action based and as such are about reciprocal bonding – just like in the old days of the local shopkeeper.
Even our friends at www.twitter.com have realised this by recently removing their ‘share counters’ and changing the favourite button to a heart button.

We would argue that the driver of engagement is not online activity but real-life experience. Certainly engaging in relevant conversations online can help nurture relationships. However, by facilitating participation, that allows people to come into real contact with your brand, is how you ensure people will remember you / your business.

Just observe the attendees of any sports event, theatre production etc. what do you see? Emotion – that’s what. It is only by sharing these emotional experiences with them will you truly engage with people and manifest your brand in the real world.

Evaluating 3rd party event sponsorships

In a previous life as Head of Sponsorship in AIB Bank, my constant battle was with our finance people about sponsoring unplanned for, third party events (i.e. not your own hospitality). These would have been outside of my initial budget. They could have ranged from exhibitions at trade shows to large sports activities and small student events.

The most important part of my arsenal was the research element undertaken before I approached them.

Of course, there can be many reasons why a business might sponsor a specific third party event and there are too many to cover here. Suffice to say, though, whatever the reason a business gets involved in an event it must always be based on advancing an overall business objective – in a measurable way.

From a sponsors point of view, here are some items to address in your proposal to the CFO (or to ask yourself, if a business owner).

  • Stick to the details – does the timing and location ‘fit’ with your other marketing activity? How large an audience will there be and does the activity and theme ‘fit’ with your brand message? Don’t engage in deficit funding i.e. absorb the risk from the event owner. Are there other sponsors (are they complementary) and is there a hierarchy (gold/ silver etc.)?
  • Look at the people involved – are the event owners ready and able for a professional sponsorship? Can they deliver on their promises and your objectives? Is the promised audience actually going to turn up? Look at audience demographics from previous events, what level of leads might they be, (executive vs manager)? Can the event add value for your internal audience in any way?
  • Determine what value you will get – Speaking or customer engagement opportunities, lead generation, branding basics, outside-the-box promotional opportunities, digital visibility opportunities, content creation or savings from an advertising budget. How will the audience / customer benefit from your sponsorship involvement? Make sure you include a figure for activation – depending on the type of event start-off with a €1:€1buget.
  • Measurement – measure by cost per 1,000 attendees not media value, how many new customers / leads? include digital analytics if available and summarise with the overall impact the sponsorship should have on business growth.

Here is a very good article based on recent research, from marketingprofs.com, which proves that businesses are using events to reach customers. For example, “nearly three-quarters (73%) of respondents say events are one of the better sales and marketing approaches that a firm can employ to engage customers.”

Tips and Timesavers

Whether working with businesses or event owners, a constant obstacle that we come across is the expectation that each party has of each other. This obstacle usually relates to money i.e. who is paying who to do what. That is, the event planner is relying on sponsorship funds to make the event bigger and better – the sponsoring business wants a top return on its investment. Obviously, a clear agreement, backed up by an activation plan, is paramount at the start of the relationship.

We have covered sponsorship from a sponsors’ point-of-view previously, (e.g. here), so here are six tips for the event owner / planner:

  1. Planning and logistics are very important but a waste of time if there is no audience. Make sure you outline a realistic marketing budget and then allow the potential sponsor to augment it
  2. Don’t presume a sponsor will undertake the marketing for the event. Brainstorm to develop some creative marketing ideas – think about digital opportunities the sponsor might want
  3. Don’t be a one-man show. Use a community of designers, social media influencers, techies and PR people. Many start-up businesses might be glad to be involved for awareness and networking reasons
  4. The event really must have its own website. If you don’t have the expertise there are many free templates etc. out there (e.g. www.wordpress.com ). Attach google analytics so you can show results to your sponsor and you can undertake simple SEO yourself
  5. Do we even need to mention that social media should play a large part in the marketing of an event? How about inviting a well-known speaker / performer that you are connected to online? They might even guest write for you or offer a promotion on their own media sites.
  6. Will the event be interesting to any specific media? Don’t just circulate a press release, think about who would want to cover the event story in a specific way e.g. sports vs lifestyle. Link your database to an email marketing system such as mailchimp.com. You will need to send a group promotion piece, so depending on the number, it might be worth upgrading to a system that can handle your requirements.

One caveat to the above tips is that the event you are planning must be relevant to someone, preferably a specific audience and that it would be affordable for that audience to attend.


At the end of the day, an event should be a win: win: win for all parties involved. The owner / planner wants to host a successful event, the audience want to have a wonderful experience and the sponsor / business wants to achieve a business objective. So really, it’s a combination of how the success of the event is measured by all parties, that leads to a better understanding of its value, in the long run.

Here are three other ways to think about an event – i) did it grow (year-on-year)? ii) do the activation insights show an increased appreciation in general? and iii) one for the financial guys – how was the cost per attendee? – total promotional spend / no. of actual attendees = cost per attendee.

As we’re prone to saying here in Ireland – ‘is there any better way to engage with people than to throw a bit of a party’.

“Thank you for reading our blog post today” – Aidan & Jim.

 Would you like us to notify you, by email when we publish new content? If so, just let us know by clicking here. Of course, we can always meet face-to-face, just leave your details here and we might grab a coffee, cheers. Jim – O’C&K

Campaign Planning is in the B.A.G.

campaign planning


“We want to create value for you by sharing marketing tips and timesavers” – O’C&K.

9 tips to help you to outsource the planning of your next marketing campaign.

I am going to write about campaign planning later, but I want to explain why, first. I attended the launch of a very exciting initiative by a group of SMEs last Tuesday in the Green Isle Hotel, just outside of Dublin City. The founding members are putting together a Business Action Group (B.A.G. – Facebook & Twitter), who have decided to do it for themselves through collaboration, with a focus on sales. 250 people turned up to hear various presentations from business people, ranging from retailers and dragons to bankers and serial entrepreneurs.

The message for all attendees was loud and clear, throughout the day – know your customer, know your business proposition and persevere.

Part of the schedule was a ‘Dragon’s Den’ style presentation from three attendees to a panel of judges including Gavin Duffy, Ramona Nicholas and Niall Harbison. Here are some of the main points I took from their session:

  • Clearly understand why you are in business.
  • Realise who your product / service is for.
  • Know where your audience is and what they do (offline and online).
  • Network, network and network and listen to feedback.
  • Know why existing customers buy from you.
  • Your customer service is your marketing.

It was good to hear that in order to optimise your marketing, the old truism still applies – have the right message delivered to the right people at the right time and in the right location. And, if you don’t focus, listen, segment and respond in a relevant way, you may be wasting a lot of your time.

What we do, make or provide is irrelevant if it isn’t focused on the customer – O’C&K.

Stages of a marketing campaign plan.

As I spoke with fellow attendees (way too many to mention here), during the breaks, two themes kept reoccurring – 1) the notion that B2B marketing is difficult because it is boring and 2) the question of how to plan a marketing campaign. I thought that I would address both themes by way of content for this blog post.

From a communication point of view, there can be a perception that B2B marketers lack creativity as compared to their B2C peers. Also, that campaigns focused on businesses are dull but those focused on consumers are (can be) exciting. I don’t believe that this is necessarily true but if it is, I think that sometimes, marketers (or their brief, if outsourced) forget that organisations are made up of real-live people also!

Business buyers are also consumers in their own right and in this instance just happen to be buying for their company. They may be married, have children, play sport, blog, are social media fanatics, watch TV and go to the theatre. Normal people like us! They don’t change into another species when they don the business attire. They are looking for something everybody else is looking for – a simple solution to satisfy their needs or requirements.

In fact, isn’t everybody today looking for simplicity – in their workplace, in their schools, and where they buy things. No matter who they are, technology is assisting and empowering all types of people to simplify their lives and marketers (and businesses) must respond. My point is this, whether you are a B2B or a B2C business, your audience simply wants to see the benefit for them of working or doing business with you. Simplicity should not mean sacrificing creativity when campaign planning.

I think the best way to address the second theme is to outline the stages of campaign planning.

  • Setting campaign goals – what are you trying to achieve and how will you measure it.
  • Determine a target audience and insight – why will they respond to your call to action.
  • Agree the key campaign message – your positioning and the story around it.
  • Develop a media plan and a budget – what channels to use to reach your target audience.
  • Plan engagement strategy – how will you make contact and convert (online and offline).
  • Include action from existing customers – WOM techniques e.g. social media shares.

This is just a basic outline of what should be involved, but it was what I was discussing with our fellow ‘baggies’, at the launch. Actually, speaking of planning customer engagement, Amanda Coleman from Sugar & Spice made plenty of new friends at the event. She had a marvellous display of her product (candy buffets) which proved to be extremely popular with everybody, when they (ahem) were encouraged to sample same.

Sugar & Spice Candy Buffet

Good marketing is the same as it always was.

At O’C&K, we meet a mix of B2B and B2C organisations that want to outsource some or all of their marketing. Irrespective of which one they are, the same issue arises about marketing. They expect us to show them where the easy button is, where our magic wand is to solve their marketing problem. Unfortunately, we have to point out that there is none.

That is because good marketing, whether online or offline is the same as it always was. Of course tools and trends may change, but the first rule of marketing will not, – ‘know your audience’. It is why we spend a lot of time with clients determining their real audience, and why the message from the B.A.G. launch resonated with me so much.

Tips and Timesavers.

If you don’t have the inclination, the time or the experience to undertake campaign planning, of course you can outsource all or some of it. Here are some tips to remember, if you plan to do that.

  1. Find people who can relate to your passion – they should be able to replicate your energy.
  2. Work with people who offer value – time is precious, don’t let others use yours.
  3. Focus on what the media is worth to your business – not just the cost or the deal.
  4. Marketing materials don’t have to cost a fortune – work with people you can trust.
  5. PR is not dead – but agencies must have a proficiency in online reputation management.
  6. Know who the influencers are in your industry – bloggers, magazine editors, speakers etc.
  7. Marketing outsourced should increase your capacity and capabilities –winning teams collaborate.
  8. Research is essential – online tools are available and many are free. Only pay for new research.
  9. Make sure the marketing activity is relevant – people have never had it so easy to switch you off.

To finish off I want to focus on a few common reasons why campaigns may fail. The most common is, not knowing whom you want to do what. You must be aware why those people will even listen to your message – what’s in it for them? The second most common reason is not pre-defining success. It will only be successful if the campaign objectives are linked to business objectives.

The strategy should connect the ‘why’ with your brand. My third reason reflects the points mentioned already in this post – a lack of creative thinking. Marketing requires ideas that engage people either through entertainment, problem solving or education. We believe that almost all agencies can provide a business with creative ideas. What happens sometimes though, is that the campaign brief to the agency is not clear for reasons one and two above. This is where you just might need to outsource these skills to the experts.

 If you have any other tips or timesavers please leave a reply below. If you’d like to receive similar content, just subscribe by clicking through the pink button, on this page.  Of course, if you want to get in touch, leave your details and perhaps we might meet for a chat, cheers.   Jim – O’C&K



Marketing plans – who needs them anyway?

Annual Planning

“We want to create value for you by sharing marketing tips and timesavers” – O’C&K.

The ABCs of planning an effective marketing programme. 

Having a glass of wine with some friends recently, we got into a discussion about the need for marketing plans in a business. My ‘friends’ thought that as O’C&K is now almost 16 months old and because I  ‘do’ maaarketing (sic), I should be a spokesperson for consultants worldwide.

Being curious business people (and prospects for me), they held that as traditional marketing efforts were being ignored by the public, marketing plans were defunct. Ergo – there is no need for outsourcing companies like O’C&K any more.

Yes, I did rise to the bait and, in fact, it gave me the basis for the content of this blog post.

They based their point on a simple business premise – if the customer is in charge then all a business needs to do is develop a product that people need and they will buy it. They also laboured the point that if traditional marketing isn’t working so well nowadays, why would a business require an agency?

I countered that the word ‘traditional’ was a misnomer really, because T.V. Radio and Print were still relevant as important channels in the communication mix. I continued that there was no ‘new’ marketing either, just new tools available to meet emerging consumer trends. They accused me of using jargon so I highlighted their business premise example saying that it was missing one vital ingredient – relevancy.

Continuing, I explained that not all people are going to need / want their product so, letting the relevant people know about it, when and where they have a need to know is the key. This has always been a challenge of communication but, more so nowadays. To progress, you need to engage in a smarter way and to do that effectively, you need plans – marketing plans.

Breaking to have a sip of wine, I then said that I accepted their point that the power has swung to the consumer, which has resulted in the slow demise of broadcast marketing. Consumers now have tons of information to hand, through various devices, and are listening to relevant brand stories instead of impulse buying, which requires even more effective engagement.

So I finished them off by stating that how we undertake communication is changing, but the need for marketing plans will never go away.

We all agreed that the customer is coming into the sales cycle at a much later stage than they might have in the past, and that information on a business needs to be available 24/7, which means having an online presence, as well as offline activity.

It is because of this need for integration that organisations require to outsource, some or all of, their marketing activity to companies like O’C&K who are there to take the pressure of planning and implementation, in the modern age.

I think I had won the debate at this stage as I was nominated to buy the next round of drinks. However, I did agree with them that the marketing industry needs to adapt its role more rapidly so as to be able to assist organisations engage with their customers in a smarter way. What do you think?

The C TEAM Mnemonic.

Because of the ‘bar’ chat outlined above, I thought it’d be interesting to look at modern marketing plans a little more. Of course, marketing has always been about converting relationships into long term clients but let’s have a quick look at some common terms again – I’ll use the mnemonic – CTEAM, for convenience;

Conversion is all about enhancing the customer experience at all touch points.

Targeting an audience is about data collection from new sources, not just traditional demographics.

Engagement was always a requirement but now customers want more value from interactions.

Analytics are almost as important as an actual campaign. They are now a differentiator in business.

Marketing automation, social monitoring and intelligence gathering requirements mean keeping up-to-date with technology, more than ever.

Of course, it is not all of a sudden about optimising websites, social media and new marketing tools but marketers can now move away from manual processes and guesswork. The role of marketing has not changed, in that customer relationships still need to be enhanced with a view to generating revenue, but if the role can be undertaken in a smarter way, then perhaps the marketing ROI will be stronger.

Whilst one should be aware of the CTEAM requirements of a modern marketer, that old war horse – the marketing plan – has not gone away. It remains a truism that organisations with (flexible) plans perform better than those who don’t.

Building marketing plans.

If you’ll forgive me for mentioning myself (again), for a moment, a few years ago I took a Digital Marketing Course with the Marketing Institute of Ireland. One of our presenters on the topic of marketing plans was Paul Smith, who shared his SOSTAC® model with us. Essentially, it is a seven step guide to creating a marketing plan which I believe can be used as a template for an integrated offline and online outline of activity.

Here is a link to Paul talking about the model on YouTube but just in case you haven’t got 4 minutes to view it right now – here’s the gist of it.

1)  Situation Analysis – where are we now? This is about understanding your customers. It’s like doing an audit on your business (SWOT). In addition, you are trying to get views on where your business is from the viewpoint of your customers. There are many research options available for this.

2)  Objectives – where do we want to be? Yep, it’s the SMART objective setting formula again. But in this case, Paul developed a 5s model in relation to ‘softer’ objectives rather than just concentrating on numbers e.g. customer care, communications and adding “sizzle”.

3)  Strategy – how do we get there? This is where you brainstorm about strategic initiatives that you might pursue. When you know what you are going to do, it should be easier to position the business, create customer personae and target prospects.

4)  Tactics (incl. Action & Control) – precisely, how do we get there? This involves the pulling together of the strategic initiatives into a marketing plan. Who does what, where, when, how etc?

Paul Smith suggested to us that we spend almost 100% of our time on these first four headings. Something along the lines of, (1) 50%, (2) – (4) 50%. He reckoned the last two stages of 5) Action and 6) Control should be incorporated into the other sections anyway.

This brief reference does not do the model justice so I do recommend you view the video or better still buy the book / guide on Amazon. Here is another link to Paul’s SOSTAC Planning page.

Tips and Timesavers.

Here are our ABCs to remember when planning an effective marketing programme:

a)      Marketing communication principals won’t change whatever new tools abound.

b)      Every business needs flexible and integrated marketing plans.

c)      Every business needs a great product / service.

d)     Customer service is your marketing.

e)     Target the relevant people for your business.

f)      Listening is the most underrated marketing activity.

g)     Engagement is wasteful without relevancy.

h)     Emotions drive human behaviour.

i)      ‘Traditional’ channels should still be an integral part of your marketing plans.

j)      Website reviews and makeovers should be reiterative.

k)     A clear and simple brand story is the best way of messaging.

l)      Use testimonials to demonstrate expertise and trust.

m)   Lead nurturing should be a priority for all employees not just sales / marketing.

It is an exciting time for business owners (and marketers) but let’s face it, it is also a hectic and sometimes confusing time. Everyone wants to keep up with technology and have the latest tool to generate revenue. We do need to remember my point in the fifth paragraph above – “there is no ‘new’ marketing”. Planning for the right audience is crucial. Thereafter, the integration of all relevant channels into the marketing mix will go a long way towards being able to adapt to any emerging consumer trend.

To finish off, here are some O’C&K thoughts for inclusion when building marketing plans in the future:  pay to play online is here to stay so spending your money on the right channels and content will become even more important. Quality content will require professional writers to be part of your team. Balanced use of marketing automation tools will shine through. Mobile is the new marketplace. Outsourcing will play an integral part in an increasingly lean business environment.

 If you have any other tips or timesavers please leave a reply below. If you’d like to receive similar content, just subscribe by clicking through the pink button, on this page.  Of course, if you want to get in touch, leave your details and perhaps we might meet for a chat, cheers.   Jim – O’C&K


Brand Loyalty vs Engaging Relationships.

engaging relationships

“We want to create value for you by sharing marketing tips and timesavers” – O’C&K.

There are warning signs that you may be complacent about your brand.

Better analytical tools are providing organisations with the capability of making smarter marketing decisions. As a result, the scientific element of marketing is growing in importance. In the midst of this science though, we should not lose sight of the fact that humans react to social connections (Matthew Lieberman) and relationships that engage them. It should not be a surprise to anyone that a customer wants to connect with brands that resonate with them.

I believe that often, this customer desire is perceived as brand loyalty. Organisations that use loyalty metrics on which to base their business decisions, must be careful not to fall into the trap of remaining in their marketing comfort zone. We will have a look later on about how organisations may become a little complacent in relation to their brand management and, in particular, their relationship building activity.

Perhaps another (jargon warning!) way of looking at how brand loyalty is not the same as engaging relationships is to observe how customers evaluate purchase decisions. The changing marketing paradigm means a move from relative evaluation (provided by traditional marketing messages e.g. ‘our washing powder washes whiter than yours’), to an absolute evaluation, where comparative information can be sourced from anywhere, by anybody. So customers are no longer buying from brand loyalty but are buying based on absolute information.

In such a scenario therefore, it is even more important to proactively engage with customers, online and offline, so as to retain them by providing the information they need. A good engagement marketing strategy is ideally placed to meet these challenges. It also offers guidelines for growing a business in collaboration with customers so knowledge of the ‘customer journey’ is a key to this strategy being successful.

Stop selling and start telling.

The foundation for any successful organisation has always been a founder’s long term vision of what she/he wants to achieve. In O’C&K we sometimes encounter small organisations, or start-ups, that don’t believe in the necessity for a vision statement. As I’ve alluded to above, customers are beginning to choose to deal with brands that give a damn about building engaging relationships.

Often it is the vision or the ‘brand story’ that resonates with them in the first place. Thereafter, they are more open to relationship building. In this digital age, with all its noise, it is important to know and communicate your vision so as to entice customers into being a part of it.

What I’m saying here is that organisations should stop selling and start telling. A story gives people a context for decision making. It allows your brand’s personality to shine through and gives relevance to what you do. Also, the tone of how you tell your story should be one that is like that of your existing or intended audience. The days of the boring old advertising campaign are over, in my opinion, because people can just switch it off, if you don’t resonate with them.

There is a plethora of new channels through which organisations can communicate. These channels allow for direct engagement with the customer and an interface at their level. As visuals are such an integral part of the online world, there is no excuse for campaigns not to be more interesting and engaging.

There is one BIG difference that organisations should take into account when developing an engagement strategy. That is the environment in which your audience engages with your brand. Smartphones, laptops, tablets, smart TVs etc. all deliver real time engagement, but in different contexts.

The user doesn’t care about how you got there, just that you are, and that you can help. Although you cannot control such environments, you can make an effort to create an experience that is relevant to the user. This is where an engagement strategy is paramount.

Tips and Timesavers.

There is a danger that when business is good, an organisation can get a little complacent about their brand and their marketing efforts. I wrote in a previous post, here, that some organisations can pick up bad marketing habits, but complacency must be one of the worst. The business landscape is changing fast, driven by customer expectations and their technology. You must keep up to speed or your competitors will whizz by you.

Here are some warning signs that you might be getting a little complacent about your brand.

  • Your existing customers are not spending as much with you as they were. – You probably have no engagement strategy in place. You may have lost touch with your customer base by being too busy to listen to them. You don’t know what they want or expect from you anymore.
  • Your lead conversions are down. – You might be basing your strategy on old research and your audience has changed. You are not using up-to-date sales tools that are available or you are not engaging with prospects in a way that they expect you to.
  • Your ‘look’ is a bit old fashioned. – Is your brand identity getting a little jaded? You can modernise your identity without affecting your vision and while you’re at it – check out your website. Even if it is only a few years old, SEO, usability, download speeds etc. can all affect your customer’s experience. By the way, how do you compare with your competitors at trade shows?
  • You still use dated photos for your marketing. – Changes in clothes, hairstyles, products, transport and even YOU, can all quickly date your image. You can upgrade sales proposals or presentations by using modern apps and plug-ins (often for free).
  • You do not use social media channels. – You might be on social media, because a ‘friend’ or a competitor compelled you to set one up. It is important that you devote the time and resources to use these tools to their full effect. 
  • You don’t have the time to attend to any of the above. –  Your existing marketing agency should be attending to these items or you can outsource projects to a small flexible company, such as ourselves.

Relationships are the new currency.

What organisations should realise is that nowadays, they must prepare to invest in engaging relationships. Everything they do, every piece of content they create from ads to emails should create a positive interaction so as to form a relationship. The interaction may be short lived, but it is still a first step. Thereafter, smarter marketing will build the relationship by using repeated engagement.

The only caveat I have for you here is to bear in mind that not everybody wants the same kind or relationship. The best kind of relationship is to provide your customer / prospect with the engagement they want, when and where they want it.

So, to summarise, don’t rely on presumed brand loyalty. Continuous relationship building is imperative, all of which should start with a positive interaction. Thereafter, repeated engagement how and when they want it, will form a ‘bond’. This bond is the difference that will stop your customer being tempted to move to a competitor. The ultimate achievement is that they would become your brand ambassador and we would love to help you with that objective.

If you have any other tips or timesavers please leave a reply below. If you’d like to receive similar content, just subscribe by clicking through the pink button, on this page.  Of course if you want to get in touch, leave your details and perhaps we might meet for a chat, cheers.   Jim – O’C&K